Hydroxyethyl Cellulose - Chemists Corner

Hello guys, I need help.

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I have failed so many samples now, I think it’s time to borrow your brains.
I’m having problem with thickening my surfactant system with HEC.

Formula is around this:

Phase A
69.5% Water
12% Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate 
12% Cocamidopropyl betaine
4% Coco glucoside
1% Euxyl PE

Phase B
1.5% HEC 

Phase C
q.s. Sodium Hydroxide 30% to pH>8

1) I combine phase A under low shear (overhead mixer) until homogenous.
2) I add slowly HEC until fully dispersed and homogenous. Mix under low shear for another minute or two. ( I’m making sure pH is<7 )
3) Add phase C to pH > 8 (usually end up around 9)
4) I mix and mix and mix. (I do not lower the pH to get the HEC time)

I come next day and there is this HEC layer floating on the top or sitting on the bottom. 

I tried mixing it for longer, shorted, increasing pH higher. 
Nothing helped. Am I missing something? 

Thanks guys!

In my experience hec is not very compatible with glucosides.

it is not compatable with high amount of surfactants. I made 3% surfactant and it worked, 10% surfactant and it didn’t work so i didn’t use hec in shampoo after that. 

It cant give you that 5-10k cst viscosity in any amount. So HPMC is a much better option. Can give up to 200k cst viscosity, support high surfactants and is less expensive. Although this is also not very compatible with glucosides.

Thanks guys. @ketchito @Mondonna @Abdullah @Perry
I agree with Perry it does dissolve better in cold water. 

From my study with IPCS adding HEC before the surfactants is a no no. 
As those surfactants contain water too, the gum would not hydrate with all water available and after adding additional water (with surfactants) it will separate. But it is actually happening now. So will definitely try it. 
Thanks again  

@Paprik Just out of curiosity, did you add some base before adding surfactants (and after mixing and hydrating the polymer)? Since these polymers are highly hygroscopic, manufacturers add a layer of acidic mantle to “delay” hydration (that’s what the “R” stands for when you see the material code). So, adding a base helps get rid of the mantle, speeds hydration, and increases both viscosity and clarity. But mainly, it helps the polymer to expand, and this is crucial since when you add surfactants, there’ll be no room for the polymer to expand properly and interact with surfactants (a lack of polymer expansion might prevent a proper polymer-surfactant interaction, causing separation). 

@ketchito, yes I did. 
Yesterday I tried your method, adding HEC before anything else. I mixed til properly suspended and add a few drops of Sodium Hydroxide. To pH around 8 - 9. Waited until it cleared and thick gel formed (10 - 15 mins I think). Mix for couple more minutes and add my surfactant blend. Mixed til homogenous, mixed a bit more and adjusted the pH to 5.5 - 6.0. 

If you want to learn more, please visit our website Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose (HPMC).

This morning (half an hour ago ) I went to my lab and … that damned separated layer was there.

I’m starting to think the HEC won’t be compatible with this load of surfactants maybe. I have Methocel, but wasn’t playing with it yet. Only ones and it didn’t go into the water easily like HEC, so I kind of gave up on it Guess big mistake. 

Whenever I used HEC in my water based formulas (serums, cleansers…etc) I will take a portion of the water (usually about 10-15% of total water) and heat it to 60C on a hot stir plate. When the water gets to about 50C I’ll add all the HEC to it.  When it hits 60C the HEC absorbs like lighting into the water and forms a jelly type substance.  Depending on your HEC/water ratio the jelly will be thicker or thinner.  After I’m done formulating everything, I’ll add that HEC jelly back into the formula while I’m mixing (high shear mixer like Silvers) after everything else (mix for about 4-5 minutes) and before any surfactants.  My typical HEC usage is between 0.2% and 0.7%.   Your 1.5% seems super high.

This information from Lexicomp® explains what you need to know about this medication, including what it’s used for, how to take it, its side effects, and when to call your healthcare provider.

Brand Names: US

Alcon Tears [OTC]; GenTeal Severe [OTC]; Gonak [OTC] [DSC]; Goniotaire [OTC]; ImproVue [OTC]; Isopto Tears [OTC] [DSC]; Pure & Gentle Lubricant [OTC]; Vista Gel Dry Eye Relief [OTC] [DSC]; Vista Gonio Dry Eye Relief [OTC]

What is this drug used for?

• It is used to treat dry eyes.
• It is used to treat eye irritation.

What do I need to tell my doctor BEFORE I take this drug?

• If you are allergic to this drug; any part of this drug; or any other drugs, foods, or substances. Tell your doctor about the allergy and what signs you had.

This drug may interact with other drugs or health problems.

Tell your doctor and pharmacist about all of your drugs (prescription or OTC, natural products, vitamins) and health problems. You must check to make sure that it is safe for you to take this drug with all of your drugs and health problems. Do not start, stop, or change the dose of any drug without checking with your doctor.

What are some things I need to know or do while I take this drug?

• Tell all of your health care providers that you take this drug. This includes your doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and dentists.
• Do not take this drug by mouth. If this drug is put in the mouth or swallowed, call a doctor or poison control center right away.
• Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, plan on getting pregnant, or are breast-feeding. You will need to talk about the benefits and risks to you and the baby.

What are some side effects that I need to call my doctor about right away?

WARNING/CAUTION: Even though it may be rare, some people may have very bad and sometimes deadly side effects when taking a drug. Tell your doctor or get medical help right away if you have any of the following signs or symptoms that may be related to a very bad side effect:

• Signs of an allergic reaction, like rash; hives; itching; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin with or without fever; wheezing; tightness in the chest or throat; trouble breathing, swallowing, or talking; unusual hoarseness; or swelling of the mouth, face, lips, tongue, or throat.
• Change in eyesight, eye pain, or severe eye irritation.

What are some other side effects of this drug?

All drugs may cause side effects. However, many people have no side effects or only have minor side effects. Call your doctor or get medical help if you have any side effects that bother you or do not go away.

These are not all of the side effects that may occur. If you have questions about side effects, call your doctor. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects.

You may report side effects to your national health agency.

You may report side effects to the FDA at 1-800-332-. You may also report side effects at https://www.fda.gov/medwatch.

How is this drug best taken?

Use this drug as ordered by your doctor. Read all information given to you. Follow all instructions closely.

• For the eye only.
• Some of these products are not for use if you are wearing contact lenses. Be sure you know if you need to avoid wearing contact lenses while using this product.
• Do not touch the container tip to the eye, lid, or other skin. This could lead to bacteria in the drug, which may cause severe eye problems or loss of eyesight.
• Put the cap back on after you are done using your dose.
• Wash hands before and after use.
• Tilt your head back and drop drug into the eye.
• After use, keep your eyes closed. Put pressure on the inside corner of the eye. Do this for 1 to 2 minutes. This keeps the drug in your eye.
• Some of these drugs need to be shaken before use. Be sure you know if this product needs to be shaken before using it.
• Do not use if the solution is cloudy, leaking, or has particles.
• Do not use if solution changes color.

What do I do if I miss a dose?

• If you use this drug on a regular basis, use a missed dose as soon as you think about it.
• If it is close to the time for your next dose, skip the missed dose and go back to your normal time.
• Do not use 2 doses at the same time or extra doses.
• Many times this drug is used on an as needed basis. Do not use more often than told by the doctor.

How do I store and/or throw out this drug?

• Store at room temperature.
• Keep lid tightly closed.
• Be sure you know how long you can store this drug before you need to throw it away.
• Keep all drugs in a safe place. Keep all drugs out of the reach of children and pets.
• Throw away unused or expired drugs. Do not flush down a toilet or pour down a drain unless you are told to do so. Check with your pharmacist if you have questions about the best way to throw out drugs. There may be drug take-back programs in your area.

General drug facts

• If your symptoms or health problems do not get better or if they become worse, call your doctor.
• Do not share your drugs with others and do not take anyone else’s drugs.
• Some drugs may have another patient information leaflet. If you have any questions about this drug, please talk with your doctor, nurse, pharmacist, or other health care provider.
• Some drugs may have another patient information leaflet. Check with your pharmacist. If you have any questions about this drug, please talk with your doctor, nurse, pharmacist, or other health care provider.
• If you think there has been an overdose, call your poison control center or get medical care right away. Be ready to tell or show what was taken, how much, and when it happened.

Consumer Information Use and Disclaimer

This generalized information is a limited summary of diagnosis, treatment, and/or medication information. It is not meant to be comprehensive and should be used as a tool to help the user understand and/or assess potential diagnostic and treatment options. It does NOT include all information about conditions, treatments, medications, side effects, or risks that may apply to a specific patient. It is not intended to be medical advice or a substitute for the medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment of a health care provider based on the health care provider’s examination and assessment of a patient’s specific and unique circumstances. Patients must speak with a health care provider for complete information about their health, medical questions, and treatment options, including any risks or benefits regarding use of medications. This information does not endorse any treatments or medications as safe, effective, or approved for treating a specific patient. UpToDate, Inc. and its affiliates disclaim any warranty or liability relating to this information or the use thereof. The use of this information is governed by the Terms of Use, available at https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/know/clinical-effectiveness-terms.

Last Reviewed Date

-10-23

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